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The Obameter tracks which campaign promises are fulfilled
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Author Topic: The Obameter tracks which campaign promises are fulfilled  (Read 9394 times)
wodan46
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« on: January 27, 2009, 22:56:39 EST »

The title says it all really.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

500 promises are considered, and it is observed what course of action, if any, are taken, with evidence to cite for it.  So far, Obama's been able to initiate 24, but it will take time before we find out how many are covered.

So far as I can tell, the website appears to be neither liberal nor conservative, though it seems to lean towards liberal in its not labeling Obama the Anti-Christ, and rationally studying remarks by both sides for their factual merit.
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 23:06:29 EST »

Yeah, though I'm not sure the term "compromise" is what applies to Obama's stance on lobbyists.

I believe the term would be, ummm... "lip service".  If within a week of making a rule you break it, it's like a drunk telling me he's just having one more a couple of days after declaring he is going sober.

The presidential records is also not "kept", as it's not Bush's presidential records everyone is worried about, it's Obama continuing the "executive privledge" trend.

I would say it trends pro-Obama, but it's mainstream American, so it's not going to treat the system as conceptually flawed.
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"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
wodan46
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 16:17:48 EST »

He's failed his first promise, ironically doing so by fulfilling another.
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 01:09:14 EST »

I actually don't blame him for all this mess (though I do hope the bill will fail).

Trusting Pelosi and Reid to keep their pants on was a mistake, and pretty much anyone with any sense (this counts out such groups as Moveon and hard partisans) agrees that there is no cohesion to the bill, it's just throwing money around semi-randomly and hoping it works.

Part of me hopes it passes too, because I think it would be funny to see if Obama can scotch up his presidential start worse then Bush did, nothing like 2 Tril. that just goes poof to really deflate the dollar so in 5 or 6 years I can pick up a place to live somewhere warm.  I don't drink enough any more, I feel the winter's now.
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wodan46
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 14:50:01 EST »

Obama has been quite busy:
Promise Kept 16
Compromise 6
Promise Broken 2
Stalled 1
In the Works 29
That's already a tenth of the 500 or so promises being confronted.

Also, the first 60 or so Jobs have been created by the Stimulus, at the pricetag of 2.1 Million:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/03/stimulus/index.html
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wodan46
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 20:01:21 EDT »

Up to 98 Promises dealt with in some shape or form.
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2009, 12:23:30 EDT »

Oh, what's that, I was right and he's a quasi-totalitarian?

*look for his "crush even more civil liberties then Bush could" promise*

Also, I'm kinda wibbly on what they mean by compromise.  If you said "I will not increase taxes on X" and then you do, or you hire lobbiests when you said you wouldn't, this is a broken promise, not a compromise.

I'm really suprised this whole "sovereign immunity" stuff doesn't get more coverage though, as the idea that the government and it's officers are above the law is one of the most terrifying ideas in any state.
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wodan46
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2009, 16:41:52 EDT »

or you hire lobbiests when you said you wouldn't, this is a broken promise, not a compromise.
Which is why it is listed under broken promises.  They shifted it some time ago.
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2009, 20:58:36 EDT »

I'm just really steamed about the soveriegn immunity thing.

Seriously I get mad when people turn out to be even worse then I thought.
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2009, 13:42:24 EDT »

I'm just really steamed about the soveriegn immunity thing.

Seriously I get mad when people turn out to be even worse then I thought.
The articles on the subject seem to contradict each other.  They seem to state both that invoking sovereign immunity is a novel concept and that it has been invoked for the last two centuries by the US government.

What I'm curious about is why Obama is bothering to defend the spying and the like anyways, he has no stake or motivation to do so.
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 21:52:14 EDT »

He absolutely has a stake in doing so, as legally if the defense is accepted then he can, well, do whatever he pleases with domestic spying with no fear of reprecussions.

State secrets is something anyone pursuing power would want, as it allows one to dodge out of sticky situations without having to answer to the courts.  It seems to me to be an attempt to hold on to and expand the powers seized by the Bush administration, which makes sense if one wishes to press forward an aggressive political agenda, as it puts a lot more tools on the table.

Most of this stuff is fairly new, had the Patriot act existed during Watergate, Nixon would never have been jacked up.
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wodan46
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009, 13:16:39 EDT »

Sigh, this is why it would've been nice to have an actual left-wing candidate, rather than being forced to choose between a far-right candidate and a center-right candidate.  Still, Obama has a long way to go before he actually becomes worse than Bush.

That said, whatever power Obama gets from keeping state secrets going strong is not going to match the power he loses when the left realizes he isn't going to expose the crimes that the right committed.  Obama is not going to get support from the right under any circumstance, so one would think he'd at least make an effort to please the left.

Keep in mind that while Obama did this:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/06/obama/

He also did this:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/17/prosecutions/index.html

While the first is something Bush would've done, no Bushie would've EVER done the second.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 13:26:38 EDT by wodan46 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2009, 14:08:31 EDT »

So Bush is the standard to which American Presidents should be held in regards to abuses of power?

*shudders*

I disagree with Greenwald, the decision to release the documents was connected to the decision to not prosecute, as they are a parcel response to the general WTF are we gonna do about this torture stuff.

Talk Big, act small.  I actually take the acustics as much more minor then other things, without penalties being meted out to someone there is no fear of doing the same thing again.
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wodan46
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2009, 18:14:31 EDT »

So Bush is the standard to which American Presidents should be held in regards to abuses of power?
No, he was the previous president.  Hence, he is the one to whom you compare to when asking whether or not the administration as a whole is improving, earlier presidents are irrelevant for such consideration.
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2009, 19:09:43 EDT »

I totally disagree, there are certain traits that are required to be considered a "good" president.  Gradient upon previous actions would mean that it was "good" for the Italians to move into fascism.

This is not the case, previous incompetance does not abbrogate duties.  I cannot kill a man and then state, when asked if it was bad "Ah, but unlike my neighbour, I have not killed two men."  I'm sorry, I just refuse to accept gradiated morality and duties.

It wouldn't even matter if -all- previous leaders were corrupt jackals, there are fundemental duties incumbant upon the office and beyond that, the concept of moral leadership itself.
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