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Steele is who the 'pubs need
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Author Topic: Steele is who the 'pubs need  (Read 4563 times)
Heq
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« on: March 11, 2009, 18:36:59 EDT »

I'm sorry, someone needs to say it.

Mike Steele is good for the republicans and good for America overall (a one-party system is a bad idea), it's a damn shame he's getting the rough ride he's getting.

Deep down it seems he wants to move the party past abortion and gay rights (he seems to consider both of those personal issues, though he would never go all the way and back them, he's not a crusader), and discuss issues in an intelligent and meaningful way.

I think the 'pubs are gonna burn him and I think in 10 years they'll realize it was a terrible mistake to let Rush push them around on these issues.  The whole thing makes me kinda sad, as America needs more wonkery right now and less soundbites.  Without intelligent debate everyone gets lazy and slapshod and if America fumbles up this time it may not get another go.
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"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Medivh
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Power-mad elf


« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 19:15:57 EDT »

I agree that a one-party system is a bad idea... But wouldn't the Greens replacing the Republicans be better? Then there'd actually be a left-right split, rather than right-further-right...
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Heq
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2009, 19:54:29 EDT »

Except that the Greens are...well, they actually want bigger court settlements last I heard.

If the Green party was serious, yeah, but in my heart of hearts they seem to just not care.  It's like the libertarians in america, as individuals a lot of the best political philosophers come out of them, but as a party they're a fucking joke.
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"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Aeron
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What?


« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2009, 19:59:02 EDT »

Heh, the Libertarians do outperform the greens, you've gotta give them that.
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Blue Boy from Red Country
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 18:27:22 EDT »

I'm sorry, someone needs to say it.

Mike Steele is good for the republicans and good for America overall (a one-party system is a bad idea), it's a damn shame he's getting the rough ride he's getting.

Deep down it seems he wants to move the party past abortion and gay rights (he seems to consider both of those personal issues, though he would never go all the way and back them, he's not a crusader), and discuss issues in an intelligent and meaningful way.

I think the 'pubs are gonna burn him and I think in 10 years they'll realize it was a terrible mistake to let Rush push them around on these issues.  The whole thing makes me kinda sad, as America needs more wonkery right now and less soundbites.  Without intelligent debate everyone gets lazy and slapshod and if America fumbles up this time it may not get another go.

Yeah, I definitely agree...

Unfortunately, I think the Republicans relied too heavily on anti-intellectual tactics, such as emotional appeals to Christian values and patriotism and blatant character assassination, that they've attracted politicians and pundits without enough sense to accept that the party needs to move forward. I think a lot of the negativity towards Steele is because there are Republicans too proud to ever admit they could be wrong.
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Medivh
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2009, 19:24:35 EDT »

Except that the Greens are...well, they actually want bigger court settlements last I heard.

If the Green party was serious, yeah, but in my heart of hearts they seem to just not care.  It's like the libertarians in america, as individuals a lot of the best political philosophers come out of them, but as a party they're a fucking joke.

Ok, so maybe a new party that is truely left-wing could form and actually try to be a political party. You know, start on the local level.

Ok, so maybe I've got pipe dreams, and not a whole lot of much else...
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Heq
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 22:36:38 EDT »

The usual problem is that while the ideas are often there, the work ethic is often lacking (especially on the left, for some reason the right seems better able to mobilize).

Probably because most serious leftist reformers are educated and employed, while most of the people to first get on the political bus smell of petchuli and are utterly useless.

Hmmm...If somehow the hippies could be kept from ruining it every time...  (to those of you who have not been politically active on the left, I assure you it is really difficult to convince people you could be a good steward of society when the guy to your right is trying to get high off GasX)
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"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Ihlosi
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 03:54:05 EDT »

Ok, so maybe a new party that is truely left-wing could form and actually try to be a political party. You know, start on the local level.

I don't think the US is ready for anything that's truly, "European style", left-wing. Maybe they could start with a party that's "left" of the Democrats, which would still qualify as "centre" or "centre-left" from a European viewpoint. But even that would be a hard sell.
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Heq
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 12:05:26 EDT »

*looks at europe*

And to be fair...Europe is...kinda a bucket of fail.

While one can make the case for europe over America, as a whole it's really hard to make the case that Europe is a better place.  While America may be blunderingly imperialistic, it has never come anything close to the pure liquid evil which can and does flow out of the european system (and into places like Africa).

While the 'pubs can be dicks, they are no BNP, and while America may be in economic troubles, they are not going to fall into utter shambles as Europe is likely to do (or has done).

Sorry, just felt the need to point out that anyone who looks to europe as the guiding light of politics and society really needs to get their eyes checked.
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 12:12:57 EDT »

Quote from: Heq
Europe is...kinda a bucket of fail.
Yes.  American's ought to come over here more often.
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Ihlosi
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 13:11:08 EDT »

While one can make the case for europe over America, as a whole it's really hard to make the case that Europe is a better place.  While America may be blunderingly imperialistic, it has never come anything close to the pure liquid evil which can and does flow out of the european system (and into places like Africa).

Well, of course the US isn't going to dump their pure evil into Africa. They'll use South America, which is much closer.
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Heq
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 22:55:29 EDT »

America tries sometimes to be real evil to South America, but it just doesn't hold long enough grudges and is too greedy to really ram the place down.

Argentina fucking defaulted and royally boned them but here we are, scant years later, and America is there in bed with them muttering "I'll do it, but I won't like it."  The huff and puff is there, but the sheer willingness to do active evil is just lacking.  America always wants to believe it's doing good, *looks pointedly at France* while there are a number of major players in Europe who will kick the crap out of countries for very little reason at all.

This is just one of those issues I have, as I was discussing with a collegue recently and they said "Why can't America be more like Europe?"  I have family in europe and occassionally summered there as a child and I just can't figure out why anyone who aspire to that.  It's like aspiring to be Janitor, I mean, sure, it's reasonable, but it doesn't kill you to raise the bar a little bit.
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 08:28:31 EDT »

If only more American's came here.  If you lived where I live you would understand my point of view much better.
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