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[BLOG] Stepping Away
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Author Topic: [BLOG] Stepping Away  (Read 6414 times)
marklungo
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« on: January 13, 2009, 14:36:41 EST »

First Beagle announced he was leaving, now Eagle is "semi-retiring". Oh God, they're dropping like flies...

We'll all miss you, Eagle, and I for one intend to keep up with your new comic Rainedog. BTW, Does anyone know if Seagull plans to keep posting here?
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Manufacturing Dissent
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 15:19:36 EST »

In all honestly, I can't say I'm shocked by this news.  The signs have been there for a while that this was going to happen.

Still, it is sad to see things come to an end.
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"If it had not been for the discontent of a few fellows who had not been satisfied with their conditions, you would still be living in caves. Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization.

Progress is born of agitation. It is agitation or stagnation."
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Blue Boy from Red Country
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 18:28:27 EST »

In all honestly, I can't say I'm shocked by this news.  The signs have been there for a while that this was going to happen.

Still, it is sad to see things come to an end.

Indeed... sad, but also good because of the reasons behind it. Beagle, Eagle, (and possibly Seagull) are no longer needed to point out the obvious since some level of sanity has been restored to the United States. An old stagnated party has been dethroned; politicians on both sides of the aisle will likely now get back to the business of actually representing people and governing this nation instead of playing petty games.

Best of luck to you all. (In case I should suddenly float aw
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 07:02:54 EST »

I think people are looking at this far too optimistically.  It all seems very like the time that Labour won the general election in Britain in 1997.
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Heq
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 09:42:12 EST »

But Blair didn't like the Queen but he liked Princess Di!!!!

Surely such a great man can do no wrong!  He said he feels people's pain, and he's not a Tory or a BNP party member, that's gotta be like...like being Jesus only better because Jesus didn't have to deal with the Tories.

I'm actually really disappointed in the American progressive movement and how it's reacted to all this.  The smug self-certainty that everything is going to be fine and no real work or debates need be had.  It's the exact same attitude the 'pubs had in 2002, that everything they do is sure to turn shit into gold.
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Liberal Beagle
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 11:00:57 EST »

Though I can't really speak for Eagle, I'm certain that Eagle isn't saying "Everything will be fine."  I know I'm not. Of COURSE it won't be fine.  The expectation of perfection is basically the activists' DOWNFALL.  Politicians are politicians; they answer to a combination of what their hearts tell them and what they think will keep them in power.  I know that, and any rational person out there knows that as well.

My point is that no matter how badly the Democrats might screw up, the Republicans have shown evidence that they're screwing up worse.  I compare it to stopping the train from going off the cliff as opposed to actively encouraging it to do so.  There's nothing wrong with holding the Democrats' feet to the fire, but I've watched policy dialogue turn into "All Democrats are TEH SUXXOR, I'm promoting a third party."  That way lies madness; you may feel that personally your hands are clean, but this was precisely the attitude that screwed up 2000.  Anyone who wants to tell me now that Gore would not have been a better president than Bush is seriously lost.

Yes, there's already a couple of disappointments that Obama has dealt me.  Disappointments are one thing; destructive incompetence is another.  The perfect is the enemy of the good, and at this stage, I'm willing to accept the good.  If the entirety of Democratic policy (not just the pet issues that activists can sometimes hold up as a purity litmus test) slips below the border of "good" in an appreciable way, well... as Eagle says, "We'll be back."
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 11:03:50 EST by Liberal Beagle » Logged
joshbrenton
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 11:38:19 EST »

I think people are looking at this far too optimistically.  It all seems very like the time that Labour won the general election in Britain in 1997.


I had the same feeling. And forgive me for being skeptical, but I think one of the reasons they're walking away is because that after so much time promoting Obama to be the guy who will magically fix the country, they're afraid of criticizing him if he messes up. I could be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it.

My point is that no matter how badly the Democrats might screw up, the Republicans have shown evidence that they're screwing up worse.  I compare it to stopping the train from going off the cliff as opposed to actively encouraging it to do so.  There's nothing wrong with holding the Democrats' feet to the fire, but I've watched policy dialogue turn into "All Democrats are TEH SUXXOR, I'm promoting a third party."  That way lies madness; you may feel that personally your hands are clean, but this was precisely the attitude that screwed up 2000.  Anyone who wants to tell me now that Gore would not have been a better president than Bush is seriously lost.

Yes, there's already a couple of disappointments that Obama has dealt me.  Disappointments are one thing; destructive incompetence is another.  The perfect is the enemy of the good, and at this stage, I'm willing to accept the good.  If the entirety of Democratic policy (not just the pet issues that activists can sometimes hold up as a purity litmus test) slips below the border of "good" in an appreciable way, well... as Eagle says, "We'll be back."

Beagle, you're mistaken; the MAJORITY of Democrats AND republicans are teh suxxorz. And please, stop blaming third-party voters for what happened in 2000. That's just passing the buck. Al Gore was an empty suit and a hypocrite; he was no better than Bush, and would probably have been as big a screw up as Bush has been.

I really do hope to see you guys back, and I pray that I'm wrong when I think you're leaving to give Obama a free pass.
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 15:56:44 EST »

Beagle, I suspect I can't really speak for how things are in America or what is or is not competance, as that's always going to be a regional sort of observation.

I'm not sure if it's a third party kind of thing, or if one has to go the Noam Chomsky route and state that the system itself in America is built to self-destruct.  I actually kind of agree that I don't think that a moral and competant party can exist in the present american political landscape, so I'm probably just dreaming if I hope to see a solidly progressive administration in my lifetime.

Again, I don't come from a two party state or one in which labrynthian rules play such a large role (the recent OMG WTF moment would have been routine in most any state, seriously, cobbling together a coalition is "being dishonest"), and maybe by being involved I feel more empowered, or it's just that Canada is much more progressive, but some part of me always recoils at just how huge the concessions are in America.

I dunno, just musing, luck with all your future endevours.
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wodan46
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 16:45:11 EST »

I had the same feeling. And forgive me for being skeptical, but I think one of the reasons they're walking away is because that after so much time promoting Obama to be the guy who will magically fix the country, they're afraid of criticizing him if he messes up. I could be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it.
They have no problem with criticism.  However there is a difference between a president who makes a foolish economic decisions and a president who thinks torture is a good idea.  In short, they viewed their job as to point how the emperor was naked.  For Obama, the question is only how much clothes he is wearing.

Beagle, you're mistaken; the MAJORITY of Democrats AND republicans are teh suxxorz. And please, stop blaming third-party voters for what happened in 2000. That's just passing the buck. Al Gore was an empty suit and a hypocrite; he was no better than Bush, and would probably have been as big a screw up as Bush has been.
Gore had some really terrible ideas, like not only balancing the budget, but actually getting rid of the national debt, a concept which must seem really terrible to Libertarians.

Seriously, you can track all major failures in the last 8 years to the actions of Bush
September 11: Failed to heed the warnings and suggestions of carryovers from the Clinton administration
Katrina: Appointed a horse-wrangler to head FEMA
Huge Deficits: Implemented Tax Cuts which will have to be paid for by a later generation anyway
Housing Market Collapse: Lowered the Interest Rates and otherwise promoted risky dealing
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Bringerofpie
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 17:44:48 EST »

I agree with you Wodan, but you shouldn't blame George Bush for hurricane Katrina, just how it was managed. He's bad, but he's not God.
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 19:55:26 EST »

I agree with you Wodan, but you shouldn't blame George Bush for hurricane Katrina, just how it was managed. He's bad, but he's not God.

how is saying you screwed over the department then meant to manged the responed, in ANY way resbling anything But blaming him for how it was managed, and anyhing like blaming him for it happening?
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 20:34:31 EST »

I agree with you Wodan, but you shouldn't blame George Bush for hurricane Katrina, just how it was managed. He's bad, but he's not God.

how is saying you screwed over the department then meant to manged the responed, in ANY way resbling anything But blaming him for how it was managed, and anyhing like blaming him for it happening?

Honestly, I wasn't reading that closely. My bad.
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 22:21:02 EST »

I actually doubt Gore would have prevented 9/11.

The problem is that the people in charge of intelligence are, and remain, political appointees chosen for their loyalty to the party and to idealogies rather then real individuals of knowledge.

America is just badly kitted out for shadow wars, lots of money just keeps them at the table.
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 01:02:12 EST »

Is Liberal Seagull still planning to post here?  I've really appreciated his careful, down-to-earth commentary, and I would imagine that his preferred medium, text, is better suited to the subtlety required for Obama than Eagle's cartoons.
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Andrei
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 22:16:10 EST »

Quote from: dfeuer
Is Liberal Seagull still planning to post here?
I think it's a safe bet that his blog posts will slowly fade away as well... unless he decides to stop abruptly in the near future.

The only open question is what will happen with the forum.
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