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Chaos in Gaza: The libertarian position on the Middle East fiasco
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Author Topic: Chaos in Gaza: The libertarian position on the Middle East fiasco  (Read 17253 times)
Medivh
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« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2009, 03:13:43 EST »

Which all assumes that the jet is flying in a straight line, and doesn't know about the AA site.
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Psy
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« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2009, 10:38:01 EST »

Which all assumes that the jet is flying in a straight line, and doesn't know about the AA site.
No since missiles can alter course mid-air, it only assumes that the missile is fired ahead of the jet and mostly will stay ahead of the jet until impact. 
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Medivh
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« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2009, 20:04:00 EST »

But then the missile is chasing again, and has the same problems. And AA guns don't have that ability.

Effectively, your whole strategy is ruined by strafing. Which is something that most fighter pilots do as a matter of course over hostile territory, for this exact reason.
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Psy
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« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2009, 21:01:03 EST »

But then the missile is chasing again, and has the same problems. And AA guns don't have that ability.
Not necessarily, if you have multiple SAMs launched at a single target from different positions then you unless the pilot turns around one missile would still have the advantage of not having to chase the aircraft.
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Medivh
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« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2009, 00:47:03 EST »

Which is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Want another swing?
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Psy
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« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2009, 10:01:44 EST »

Which is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Want another swing?
Not that irrelevant, since the point is that ground forces can defend themselves from air power.
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Heq
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« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2009, 12:23:32 EST »

In the same way I can defend myself from Mike Tyson.

It's not that ground forces can do so well, but air power can do so little.
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"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Medivh
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2009, 04:22:27 EST »

Not only that, but we're talking about the ground forces in Vietnam. The amount of resources that could be dedicated to such a task was small at best.
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Psy
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Posts: 3049


« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2009, 09:51:21 EST »

Not only that, but we're talking about the ground forces in Vietnam. The amount of resources that could be dedicated to such a task was small at best.
Ground forces in Vietnam had the advantage of camouflage and tunnel networks.
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Medivh
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2009, 10:29:33 EST »

And no money.

Oh, wait, that's a disadvantage when we're talking about AA equipment...
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Psy
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Posts: 3049


« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2009, 10:51:35 EST »

And no money.

Oh, wait, that's a disadvantage when we're talking about AA equipment...
They had military and economic aid from the U.S.S.R and China.
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Medivh
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« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2009, 22:42:46 EST »

Clearly not enough to set up the kinds of air-superiority-from-the-ground that you're talking about.
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And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Psy
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****
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Posts: 3049


« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2009, 23:21:50 EST »

Clearly not enough to set up the kinds of air-superiority-from-the-ground that you're talking about.
Because the NVA had differences in strategy then the U.S.S.R. the U.S.S.R wanted the NVA to simply wait the Americans out thus focusing on avoiding prolonged contact with US forces.
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Heq
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« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2009, 01:13:19 EST »

You know, I feel bad saying this, but all wars are economic to some degree.

If you spend 50K$ to wreck a 10$ house with a 2$ life in it, you'd best hope the war is short and simple, or you'll run outta cash real fast.

I mean, have you seen how much it costs to put these things in the air?  Bombs are cheap, but maintaining air superiority is pricey.
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"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Blue Boy from Red Country
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« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2009, 20:48:16 EDT »

The libertarians, though not alone in doing this, are playing with the theoretical deck.  Many people act as if this is some sort of board game and one can say "Mea Culpa, shall we try a different approach?" and everyone will say "All is forgiven!"

America really has little choice at this point but to play out the hand it dealt itself, abandoning Israel will not make America suddenly clean and crisp and pure in the eyes of all people everywhere.  That is just not how the game works.  The world does not run on the magic power of hope and ideals.  If you could go back and shoot Carter, maybe, but it's far too late now.

America needs to hem in Turkey and use the Kurds to leverage Iran.  gaza may well be a lost cause, but remember that Israel has nothing, it's people cannot survive on thier own, they are just a militant theocracy.  if it cannot survive on bribes from America, it will survive on military extortion.

I agree with Heq here. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Wink
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