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[BLOG] A Big Lie I'm getting really tired of hearing
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Author Topic: [BLOG] A Big Lie I'm getting really tired of hearing  (Read 6530 times)
rogue-kun
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« on: November 05, 2008, 14:28:39 EST »

Apparently me missed a few, here's one the still relevant:

http://www.idrewthis.org/2008/10/big-lie-im-getting-really-tired-of.html
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 It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dew of the mountain that thoughts acquire speed; the hands acquire shakes; the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Bocaj Claw
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 15:44:11 EST »

As a big lie it was too little too late.
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purplecat
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2008, 15:49:59 EST »

I'm gone for a while and nobody notices new topics.

You guys had better hope my computer doesn't break down again.
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Purplecat: Keeper of the political compass thread. Want to be on the graph? post your results here

Me: (No, seriously, this entire forum has the attention span of an..... oooh! shiny!)
rogue-kun
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2008, 16:08:17 EST »

I'm gone for a while and nobody notices new topics.

You guys had better hope my computer doesn't break down again.


I religh on you for that though 8(
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 It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dew of the mountain that thoughts acquire speed; the hands acquire shakes; the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.38 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 17:06:47 EST »

I'm gone for a while and nobody notices new topics.

You guys had better hope my computer doesn't break down again.


I hope it doesn't for your sake as much as anyone else's. I had similar problems with mine over the summer that forced me to reformat, so I know how frustrating it can be. I hope you can fix any problems that arise.
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rogue-kun
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 17:20:37 EST »

As a big lie it was too little too late.

Nah it cand still bes used to hurt the passing of the actuall tax chnages
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 It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dew of the mountain that thoughts acquire speed; the hands acquire shakes; the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.38 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 17:37:49 EST »

As a big lie it was too little too late.

Nah it cand still bes used to hurt the passing of the actuall tax chnages

Fair enough. I mostly meant that it was too late to affect the election.
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rogue-kun
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 18:03:10 EST »

As a big lie it was too little too late.

Nah it cand still bes used to hurt the passing of the actuall tax chnages

Fair enough. I mostly meant that it was too late to affect the election.

true.
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 It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dew of the mountain that thoughts acquire speed; the hands acquire shakes; the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.38 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2008, 10:18:14 EST »

Social Security is still taking your money and giving it to people who don't pay taxes.  By definition.  I'm not necessarily against it, but it doesn't help the argument.

Obama promised income tax cuts for 95% of Americans.  Given that an enormous percentage of Americans pay no income taxes, it is no lie to say that he wants to take MORE money from people who pay taxes and give it to people who don't.

Given that I plan to be part of the group who succeeds instead of the group consisting of some legitimately unfortunate people and a whole lot of blood-sucking parasites, Obama's tax plans irks me considerably.
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 11:19:36 EST »

Given that I plan to be part of the group who succeeds instead of the group consisting of some legitimately unfortunate people and a whole lot of blood-sucking parasites, Obama's tax plans irks me considerably.
I'm waiting for you to actually prove that the blood-sucking parasites are the majority, and the unfortunate people the minority.  As far as I can tell, its the exact opposite.  However, note that many of those unfortunate people have been beaten down by society to the point that they feel as if the only role they can be is the blood-sucking parasite.  You claim that people won't be motivated if we give them welfare, guess what, they aren't motivated now, because without welfare, they have minimal ability to rise up and as such lose any motivation to try.
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Eon
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 12:40:17 EST »

Mmm. People can't climb the ladder of success if you keep pulling out the rungs.
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wodan46
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 18:16:19 EST »

I love it how people decide that anyway who is suffering is doing so because they choose not to progress, and as such, they don't have to lift a finger to help anyone ever and go along their selfish lives with a clean conscience.  I also like how people decide that giving these people a chance to escape would make them less motivated to do so, rather than more so.
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Eon
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 18:20:36 EST »

I love it how people decide that anyway who is suffering is doing so because they choose not to progress, and as such, they don't have to lift a finger to help anyone ever and go along their selfish lives with a clean conscience.  I also like how people decide that giving these people a chance to escape would make them less motivated to do so, rather than more so.

Indeed, it is truly fascinating how people find ways to rationalise their greed and selfishness.
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Laserlips
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 23:54:47 EST »

You can take that snide comment, print it out, fold it until it is nothing but sharp corners, and then shove it into any orifice you choose.

You assume that since I don't want the State to do something, that I don't want it done at all.  Wrong.  There are better ways of caring for the unfortunate than relying on Pelosi, Obama and Reid to do so for you.

You are implying that people have no control over their lives.  You are implying that anyone who has ever met with misfortune is doomed to a life of poverty, and that government is the ONLY way they can ever rise above that.  You are absolutely wrong.  Success happens in spite of government, not because of it.  The best governments are the ones which clear the path to freedom, not the ones which presume to select your freedoms for you.

If you believe that the only way to motivate anyone is by giving them free money, then I hope you have a whole lot of it lying around.  Obama sure doesn't.  In fact, in a time of dramatic economic crisis, he wants to dramatically increase spending.  Sounds like a surefire winner to me.

All the welfare in the world cannot make millionaires out of poor men.  If you give a man a fish every single day, he will never learn to fish for himself.
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Economic Left/Right: -1.50
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Mormons for Romney kind of sounds like it might be a palindrome, but it isn't.
wodan46
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2008, 00:45:05 EST »

You can take that snide comment, print it out, fold it until it is nothing but sharp corners, and then shove it into any orifice you choose.
You answer a snide comment with a snide comment...

You assume that since I don't want the State to do something, that I don't want it done at all.  Wrong.  There are better ways of caring for the unfortunate than relying on Pelosi, Obama and Reid to do so for you.
I wasn't talking about you specifically, but about the Neocons who adhere to Randian philosophy, and genuinely have no interest in helping others, which they disguise under a pile of excuses.  Your actions would lead to similar results, but your intent is not as detrimental.

You are implying that people have no control over their lives.
They don't have control over how much control they will have over their lives.  Some people will have more chances than others.

You are implying that anyone who has ever met with misfortune is doomed to a life of poverty, and that government is the ONLY way they can ever rise above that.  You are absolutely wrong.
I do not like speaking in absolutes, so I doubt that what you said is applicable.  However, I may note that most people in poverty tend to stay in poverty, and that many people who have gotten out of poverty were able to do so through the help of government services, the ones conservatives like to cut so they can give money back to Paris Hilton.


Success happens in spite of government, not because of it.  The best governments are the ones which clear the path to freedom, not the ones which presume to select your freedoms for you.
So ensuring someone has food on the table is selecting their freedom for them?  Honestly, I'm not sure where you are going with this, because welfare is all about clearing the path to freedom.  Or were you speaking about freedom to starve, which is what capitalism really has to offer to many many people?

If you believe that the only way to motivate anyone is by giving them free money, then I hope you have a whole lot of it lying around.
If you peruse my posts, you may notice that not only do I not advocate giving money as part of welfare, I specifically oppose it as the worst form possible.  Attacking a stance that I've stated quite clearly that I do not follow is known as attacking a strawman.

Obama sure doesn't.  In fact, in a time of dramatic economic crisis, he wants to dramatically increase spending.  Sounds like a surefire winner to me.
Prove it.  Frankly, what we need to do is drop inefficient systems that end up feeding money to corporations for no reason.  The US currently pays twice as much per person on healthcare as France does for care that is of far lower quality.  If we payed what they did per person, we'd save 800 billion a year.  Also, getting out of Iraq and downsizing out military is another 500 billion a year.  All of a sudden, money

All the welfare in the world cannot make millionaires out of poor men.
Agh, I'm full of straw, it makes it really hard to counter your arguments.

If you give a man a fish every single day, he will never learn to fish for himself.
Do you fish?  If the man is given a fish every day, that means he can focus his efforts on progressing in the world rather than on getting that fish, and ultimately he can obtain a job that allows him to be far more productive than if he were a fisher.
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The plural of "anecdote" is "anecdotes". Not "data".
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