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[BLOG]Why do Republicans hate America?
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Author Topic: [BLOG]Why do Republicans hate America?  (Read 29959 times)
joshbrenton
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« on: October 19, 2008, 12:23:18 EDT »

http://www.idrewthis.org/2008/10/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html


Liberal Eagle:
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I'm really damn tired of Republicans holding themselves up as the only ones who "love America" and, in doing so, ironically insulting and dismissing 50% of the country.

I'm tired of being told that the part of America I live in doesn't count because I vote wrong and don't drive a pickup and don't think the earth is only 6000 years old.

I find this kind of ironic, because in Eagle's attempt to bash Palin and other fanatic republicans who insult and criticize "liberal" America, he is demonstrating how he and other fanatic democrats love to insult and criticize "conservative" America. Just thought I'd point that out.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 11:11:39 EDT by Manufacturing Dissent » Logged
Nerrin
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2008, 12:42:58 EDT »

Liberal Eagle:
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I'm really damn tired of Republicans holding themselves up as the only ones who "love America" and, in doing so, ironically insulting and dismissing 50% of the country.

I'm tired of being told that the part of America I live in doesn't count because I vote wrong and don't drive a pickup and don't think the earth is only 6000 years old.

I find this kind of ironic, because in Eagle's attempt to bash Palin and other fanatic republicans who insult and criticize "liberal" America, he is demonstrating how he and other fanatic democrats love to insult and criticize "conservative" America. Just thought I'd point that out.

False equivalency. Criticizing isn't the same as what's been going on from the right: to wit, declaring anyone who doesn't fall in lockstep with the party line to be traitors, deserving of death and torture (many pundits have said as much), anti-American, terrorists, etc. You're trying to equate saying, "Geez, what a bunch of backwards rubes," with near on seven years of "Disagreeing with Bush is a crime deserving of execution!". So, no, that fails.
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2008, 12:59:49 EDT »

The question is if america is a political non-religious entity or a quasi-religious entity.

If it is quasi-religious then technically speaking the republicans are correct, and being american is part and partial to being an american Christain, more specifically american protestant.  To do otherwise damns children and the world to eternal suffering, something most people would agree (were it true) to be a very bad thing to desire.

The knee-jerk is to say america is not so religiously defined, but I'm not so sure that's the case.  If it were so obvious then we would have one winner and one loser in perpetuity.  America fluctuates between being religious and being agnostic at astounding speed, and thus I would be unwilling to call it as agnostic as, say, Germany.

I cannot stress enough that is the concept thatv America is God's chosen land is right, then the republicans are correct (for the most part) that disagreement with certain tenants is treason, and the damnation such actions would inflict on others would be worthy of the death penalty.
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joshbrenton
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2008, 13:03:26 EDT »


False equivalency. Criticizing isn't the same as what's been going on from the right: to wit, declaring anyone who doesn't fall in lockstep with the party line to be traitors, deserving of death and torture (many pundits have said as much), anti-American, terrorists, etc. You're trying to equate saying, "Geez, what a bunch of backwards rubes," with near on seven years of "Disagreeing with Bush is a crime deserving of execution!". So, no, that fails.

Okay, I should have made my point clearer. What I was trying to state was that Eagle's position shows the problem held by both the left and the right; fanaticism and hatred of the other side. You Nerrin, for example, just labeled everyone who voted republican as endorsing torture and murder, further proving my point. While admittedly the levels of animosity differ, it's still prevalent on both sides.

This is America. It's supposed to be the marketplace of ideas. So why are conflicting viewpoints treated with such hostility today? The conservatives attack the liberals by saying "They hate our country and support terrorists!" The liberals attack the conservatives with "They want to put all poor people and minorities in concentration camps!" It's just absurd.

There should be rational discussion of dissenting opinions. I disagree with McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. I try to tell others why I disagree with them and why I don't think they'd be the best people to lead the country. However, I do not insult, belittle, or demonize the candidates or their supporters (interesting side note: I have been attacked for supporting the Libertarians by people who tell me I'm voting for the party that wants to let poor people starve to death. WTF?) Political discussion has been overtaken by irrational people, and I know you don't see it this way, but it's as prevalent on the left as it is on the right.
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2008, 13:33:11 EDT »


False equivalency. Criticizing isn't the same as what's been going on from the right: to wit, declaring anyone who doesn't fall in lockstep with the party line to be traitors, deserving of death and torture (many pundits have said as much), anti-American, terrorists, etc. You're trying to equate saying, "Geez, what a bunch of backwards rubes," with near on seven years of "Disagreeing with Bush is a crime deserving of execution!". So, no, that fails.

Okay, I should have made my point clearer. What I was trying to state was that Eagle's position shows the problem held by both the left and the right; fanaticism and hatred of the other side. You Nerrin, for example, just labeled everyone who voted republican as endorsing torture and murder, further proving my point. While admittedly the levels of animosity differ, it's still prevalent on both sides.


We get you point, and point out you point as based ofn "False eqvualcey"

Of Course the other both sides think the other side is wrong, duh. But the point is the LEFT might thigh the rights ideas are harmful to America, the don't think the right WANTS to harm America, they do not go around calling them traitors who need to be taken out and shot. but the Right DOES.

and that what makes youur point wrong
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joshbrenton
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2008, 13:55:58 EDT »


We get you point, and point out you point as based ofn "False eqvualcey"

Of Course the other both sides think the other side is wrong, duh. But the point is the LEFT might thigh the rights ideas are harmful to America, the don't think the right WANTS to harm America, they do not go around calling them traitors who need to be taken out and shot. but the Right DOES.

and that what makes youur point wrong

Dude, there have been times when the left has called for violence against the right. Alec Baldwin said that Henry Hide and his family should be killed. Bill Maher wanted Dick Cheney shot when the VP visited Iraq. Some lunatics on Daily Kos said that Joe Lieberman should have been "sent to the gas chamber in Auschwitz." You can see horrendously hateful comments on sites like DailyKos and Huffington Post if you look.

I think your personal bias keeps you from acknowledging the hate that comes from the left. Thankfully, since I think both the Democrats and the Republicans suck, I can see the anger coming from both sides without being blinded by partisan loyalty.
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2008, 14:03:29 EDT »


We get you point, and point out you point as based ofn "False eqvualcey"

Of Course the other both sides think the other side is wrong, duh. But the point is the LEFT might thigh the rights ideas are harmful to America, the don't think the right WANTS to harm America, they do not go around calling them traitors who need to be taken out and shot. but the Right DOES.

and that what makes youur point wrong

Dude, there have been times when the left has called for violence against the right. Alec Baldwin said that Henry Hide and his family should be killed. Bill Maher wanted Dick Cheney shot when the VP visited Iraq. Some lunatics on Daily Kos said that Joe Lieberman should have been "sent to the gas chamber in Auschwitz." You can see horrendously hateful comments on sites like DailyKos and Huffington Post if you look.

I think your personal bias keeps you from acknowledging the hate that comes from the left. Thankfully, since I think both the Democrats and the Republicans suck, I can see the anger coming from both sides without being blinded by partisan loyalty.

umm "dude" when was the last some of the left he even had a chance at running for office did that... now compair the to a Republicans sitting in office (Michele Bachman) who are doing it right now? or Policy makers (Karl Rove)

No dedine nutes on both sides of the ilse exise the differce in on the left we dont hold them in our core... agian your point is soly based on False Equvilacey
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2008, 14:27:06 EDT »


We get you point, and point out you point as based ofn "False eqvualcey"

Of Course the other both sides think the other side is wrong, duh. But the point is the LEFT might thigh the rights ideas are harmful to America, the don't think the right WANTS to harm America, they do not go around calling them traitors who need to be taken out and shot. but the Right DOES.

and that what makes youur point wrong

Dude, there have been times when the left has called for violence against the right. Alec Baldwin said that Henry Hide and his family should be killed. Bill Maher wanted Dick Cheney shot when the VP visited Iraq. Some lunatics on Daily Kos said that Joe Lieberman should have been "sent to the gas chamber in Auschwitz." You can see horrendously hateful comments on sites like DailyKos and Huffington Post if you look.

I think your personal bias keeps you from acknowledging the hate that comes from the left. Thankfully, since I think both the Democrats and the Republicans suck, I can see the anger coming from both sides without being blinded by partisan loyalty.
Your attempt at equivalency fails yet again, because you are comparing liberal FANATICS to the conservative MAINSTREAM.

For example, do any of the liberal fanatics have a cushy program on a major news channel, where they are treated by the news channel as respectable and reasonable?

The Democrats hide and ignore their fanatics, telling them to shut up before they ruin everything.  The Republicans make them their representatives in politics and in broadcasting.
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2008, 14:39:36 EDT »

*cough* Maddow *cough*
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joshbrenton
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2008, 14:45:37 EDT »


Your attempt at equivalency fails yet again, because you are comparing liberal FANATICS to the conservative MAINSTREAM.

For example, do any of the liberal fanatics have a cushy program on a major news channel, where they are treated by the news channel as respectable and reasonable?

The Democrats hide and ignore their fanatics, telling them to shut up before they ruin everything.  The Republicans make them their representatives in politics and in broadcasting.

I think you're making the error in equivalency. From what I see, what you label the conservative "mainstream" are nothing more than fanatics. But they're put in the spotlight so that they look like the mainstream. Wouldn't you be complaining if the media was saying that the liberal extremists were the "liberal mainstream"?

It's all a matter of perspective and bias. I'm sorry, but that's just how I see it.

Oh, and I'd say that Keith Olbermann fits the profile of a fanatic with a cushy major news program who's treated with legitimacy.
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 15:23:13 EDT »

You'll find fanatics on by sides, and though I agree that conservative extermists are generally treated with more legitamacy, I see that as only one syptom of a much greater problem...

Conservative culture as a whole has become overly antagonistic and irrational. Viewing things as being a matter of right and wrong makes it very difficult to live contently in a pluralistic society where its hard to get an overall consensus on anything. Far too many conservatives have become defensive, refusing to admit any credibility or value to differing opinions so as to sheild themselves from any doubt or insecurity. (If others aren't necessarily wrong, it suggests you aren't always right.)

That's why, I believe, Palin tends to make such grossly insulting comments... to reassure supports that they are on the "right" side.
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 16:36:20 EDT »


Your attempt at equivalency fails yet again, because you are comparing liberal FANATICS to the conservative MAINSTREAM.

For example, do any of the liberal fanatics have a cushy program on a major news channel, where they are treated by the news channel as respectable and reasonable?

The Democrats hide and ignore their fanatics, telling them to shut up before they ruin everything.  The Republicans make them their representatives in politics and in broadcasting.

I think you're making the error in equivalency. From what I see, what you label the conservative "mainstream" are nothing more than fanatics. But they're put in the spotlight so that they look like the mainstream. Wouldn't you be complaining if the media was saying that the liberal extremists were the "liberal mainstream"?

It's all a matter of perspective and bias. I'm sorry, but that's just how I see it.

Oh, and I'd say that Keith Olbermann fits the profile of a fanatic with a cushy major news program who's treated with legitimacy.

What has Keith Olbermann said or done that puts him in the profile of a fanatic?
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joshbrenton
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2008, 16:44:20 EDT »

You'll find fanatics on by sides, and though I agree that conservative extermists are generally treated with more legitamacy, I see that as only one syptom of a much greater problem...

Conservative culture as a whole has become overly antagonistic and irrational. Viewing things as being a matter of right and wrong makes it very difficult to live contently in a pluralistic society where its hard to get an overall consensus on anything. Far too many conservatives have become defensive, refusing to admit any credibility or value to differing opinions so as to sheild themselves from any doubt or insecurity. (If others aren't necessarily wrong, it suggests you aren't always right.)

That's why, I believe, Palin tends to make such grossly insulting comments... to reassure supports that they are on the "right" side.

I refer you to a quote made by Howard Dean where he described the conflict between Democrats and Republicans as follows: "This is a struggle of good and evil. And we're the good."

I disagree with conservatives on a lot of issues, but I'm not going to label all of them as hostile or intolerant people just because of a few nutters. Also, I think that the reason so many of the fanatic republicans get excessive media coverage is because the statements they make are just so unbelievably stupid. But again, their retarded comments should not be applied to thinking that all republicans believe what the morons do.
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2008, 18:20:09 EDT »

I wouldn't say Olbermann is extreme, though he is assuredly a democrat on a hard left network.  His interview with Obama was essentially a sloppy blowjob in public.

Maddow is the extremist, and Matthews centre-left populist.  I like to call it the M.O.M. segment of TV, but MSNBC has been spirally for a while into hackery now, which is kinda sad because it used to be my fav. network, now I just quietly rock back and forth and weep.

Pro-right Fox
Pro-left MSNBC
Pro-Anderson Cooper CNN
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2008, 18:49:33 EDT »

The difference between liberal fanatics and conservative fanatics is that one of them is in the white house and the other isn't.  One of them has complete control over the most popular news channel on TV that spews out lies and propaganda that little basis in factual reality, and the other has a few commentators making some snide remarks, usually with sound basis.

Perhaps to clarify, observe the picture at the start of this thread: http://www.ireadthis.org/index.php?topic=4014.0

Notify me when MSNBC does that to McCain.  And not by an opinion editorial by a news anchor, but an actual news broadcast by the anchor.  Keith Olbermann and Bill O Reilly are free to say whatever they want when they aren't in the context of actually delivering the news.

But I remind you, Fox News was the kind of channel that happily talked about Clinton being a mass murdering rapist with no basis in reality.  Olbermann thinks that Bush is a terrible person, because he has made terrible decisions.  Which is worse?

There is a difference between a mainstream news channel blaring out open lies 24/7, and a mainstream news channel that occasionally has opinion pieces where an anchor critiques someone based on actions they did that are open knowledge, such as Olbermann castigating Bush when Bush said that he had stopped playing Golf to honor the sacrifice of American Troops.

Acknowledge that difference.  It is rather LARGE.
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