Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/public/Sources/Load.php(225) : runtime-created function on line 3
Opinions on genetically modified crops
I Read This
December 11, 2018, 12:32:48 EST *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Lupinia Hosting Community, which hosts I Read This, is supported by donations!  Please contribute if you're able, click here for details.
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
Author Topic: Opinions on genetically modified crops  (Read 7362 times)
Current
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3141


« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2008, 05:31:01 EDT »

Of course, if the world's population doubles once more, you'll have a point. But then we'll also be looking at problems much bigger than food production.

Which it won't. We're looking at a population growth that seems to be heading towards stabilising at about 9 billion.
Yes, and that's a point I often make.

Things though are a bit different for Africa.  The less developed regions of the earth are predicted to be the last where the population will stabilise.  The population of the world is likely to stabilise long before Africa's population does.  This is one of the problems facing Africa.
Logged
Ihlosi
Political Analyst
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 232


« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2008, 07:16:40 EDT »

I'm not sure I agree. Just because we were barbarous, it's a part of human development?

That we're barbarous seems to be part of human nature, that it takes us generations to grow out of it seems to be part of human development, judging from history.

Quote
I think it's also because anyone who gets HIV under Islamic law would be considered to have sinned badly enough that God has stepped in and made their life horrible. Thus, less likely to propagate, through social shunning.

Well, that's the entire problem of HIV/AIDS - you can't tell if someone is infected with HIV without a blood test. It's still hard to tell if someone has developed AIDS (which can take a decade or more after the infection with HIV) because there are few symptoms specific to AIDS apart from suddenly catching a lot of diseases that a healthy person wouldn't. It's not like leprosy where it's pretty much blindingly obvious when a person develops the symptoms.

Quote
This is a possible explaination for the same in Catholic-based areas, as well.

Both faiths also pretty much require faithfulness in marriage, which might also be a factor (even if the requirement is not observed perfecly in every case. Anything that lowers the promiscuity rate will reduce the rate at which HIV spreads).
Logged
Heq
Trouble
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1391



« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2008, 12:03:09 EDT »

Giz, not sure if I buy your numbers.  Mind you, we're dealing with a huge wildcard in China, so I guess I'm blowing just as much smoke when I say that increasing technologies and decreasing regulations may cause a surge in Chinese/Indian populations.

Data on China is stupid sketchy though.  As is guessing at the North American immigration policies and open-ness to immigration in the next 3 decades.
Logged

"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Gizensha
Campaign Management Staff
Free Speech Advocate
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10053


Dragon Winged Fox


WWW
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2008, 12:57:00 EDT »

Giz, not sure if I buy your numbers.

*shrugs* Those are the current projections.

Quote
Mind you, we're dealing with a huge wildcard in China, so I guess I'm blowing just as much smoke when I say that increasing technologies and decreasing regulations may cause a surge in Chinese/Indian populations.

More likely the opposite, really.

To remind you, the first three stages of population growth:

High rate of births, high rate of deaths.
High rate of births, low rate of deaths.
Low rate of births, low rate of deaths.

As technology develops, you reduce the amount of deaths. Eventually it clicks in the populace's mind that they don't need 7 children (both to ensure a couple to survive, and due to increasing industrial centre meaning an army of children to pay for your sustenance in old age becomes less and less necessary)

...High school geography. More like general knowledge class.

Now, the Chinese regulations artificially force a culture which is naturally in the second into the third [actually it attempts to shift it into the theoretical first which is only seen in Germany, or at least was in the late 90s, but see below] so expect a brief shift back into the second for China once the regulations are lifted, however, overall, I don't think that hiccup with affect things too much.

Besides - The Chinese regulations typically are only actually enforced in the built up areas.
Logged

Quote from: Tim Guest
Interactive Fiction is computer gaming's best parallel with poetry: complex, subtle, and these days absolutely unsaleable.

Quote from: Raph Koster
Art and entertainment are not terms of type - they are terms of intensity
Ihlosi
Political Analyst
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 232


« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2008, 13:39:26 EDT »

Fair enough...

Ok, I finally had time to compile the numbers.


                 %HIV    %Catholic

Swaziland       33.38%   5.35%
Botswana        24.10%   4.94%
Lesotho         23.24%  48.76%
Zimbabwe        20.12%   7.71%
Namibia         19.56%  16.95%
South Africa    18.78%   6.43%
Zambia          16.96%  26.31%
Mozambique      16.11%  22.23%
Malawi          14.09%  19.56%
CAR             10.73%  23.00%



Burundi          3.26%  63.09%
Gabon            7.88%  50.17%
Rwanda           3.00%  47.87%
Lesotho         23.24%  48.76%
Angola           3.68%  44.14%
Congo, D.R.      3.23%  42.65%
Zambia          16.11%  26.31%
Tanzania         6.46%  25.74%
Cameroon         5.43%  25.68%
Madagascar       0.51%  24.01%


They are not completely conclusive, if factors such as geography (it's believed that HIV evolved somewhere in central Africa) and ethnicities/other religions (e.g. Catholicism is only able to spread in areas that aren't predominantly Muslim, which rules out much of North Africa)are considered.
Logged
Medivh
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3466


Power-mad elf


« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2008, 21:59:01 EDT »

And Lesotho is an outlier due to small population. Interestingly, the Nambia page has been deleted from Wikipedia, for patent nonsense...

Good point, and well made.
Logged

And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
boring7
Political Analyst
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 292


« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2008, 08:59:59 EDT »

Well things have moved on to population, so I have to change my reply, ah well. 

China and India are going to have a fire when the "bare branches" light up.  Lack of women plus no homosexuality means all that sexual frustration gets put into fighting and killing.  Whether we are going to see civil war or foreign aggression I cannot say, but I am quite certain there will be blood before it is over, and that will have an effect on both population and whether or not population stabilizes. 
Logged
Current
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3141


« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 05:14:16 EDT »

I agree about China's population control measures.  They could have many unintended consequences.  I think boring7 has a point, though I'm not sure it will be that big a problem.

Low population growth is the outcome of a high standard of living and working savings/banking systems.  The former ensures that children survive, the later that old people don't need to have many children to support them in their old age.  In Chinese cities at least these things are becoming more common, so its likely that the regulations are becoming irrelevant there.  As Gizensha points out the regulations are not so strictly enforced outside of cities.  In some areas of rural China they are officially not enforced.
Logged
Heq
Trouble
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1391



« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2008, 14:18:30 EDT »

The wildcard in China is religion, with the resurgance of religion in China and the lifting of bans (so my Chinese contacts tell me, though they are in Canada studying so what the fuck to they know) we may not see the numbers hold to standard trending.

All the major religions in China (Catholicism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Confuscianism) believe in large families, and in the two up and comers (Confuscianism is in renaissance, and Catholicism) it's a duty.  Never underestimate religion when it comes to skewing economic trends.  China has it's targets locked, by the by, they are going to pound Japan economically, culturally, and dominate them into the ground.

India is a different story, it is likely to have a decent tech level with falling wages when it goes through its next collapse, the government is going to eventually lash out at Pakistan, more likely because the Pakistanis are probably going to support the Muslims who are quickly out-pacing the Hindu ruling class.  Hinduism is, to a large extent, done as a religion, and is going to enter a power-spiral.  Desperate power groups act like madmen, so buy a hat and hold onto it.
Logged

"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Medivh
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3466


Power-mad elf


« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2008, 19:26:50 EDT »

China has it's targets locked, by the by, they are going to pound Japan economically, culturally, and dominate them into the ground.

This is going to be quite the task. I can see the "economically" happening, eventually, through sheer manpower, but Japan has quite the technological advantage and will be competitive for a long time. Their culture contributes to this as well, being in that the Japanese have a hard time leaving work to go home.

Culturally, though? The war is lost before it began. Japan already has wannabe Japanese among the Western populations. It's been this way for two decades, and the love affair only seems to be getting stronger. No-one wants to be Chinese and the only input they have into Western culture is Chinese food. Everything else is suspect and unlikely to be taken up.

Hell, the South Koreans have had jack of the Chinese too, not to mention Taiwan.
Logged

And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
Heq
Trouble
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1391



« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2008, 20:15:05 EDT »

I think and hope it will remain economic, and I agree China will not win the culture feud.  My worry is that Japan does something bone-headed and the power-keg goes up (stop visiting that damn shrine to the Nanking soldiers) and China decides to crap kick Japan militarily.

Given current american entanglements, there is no functioning military in the world that would go to bat for Japan if that happened, and Japan doesn't have a missile defense system that is a serious threat to China.
Logged

"No common man could believe such a thing, you'd have to be an intellectual to fall for anything as stupid as that."-Orwell
Medivh
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3466


Power-mad elf


« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2008, 20:36:21 EDT »

Give Japan a few years, and their military culture will reassert its self. It didn't die when the constitution was changed to revoke the right of the Japanese government to have a standing army, it just mutated into their "live to work" culture.

That said, it's going to take a few decades to get their navy and air force up to scratch. After that, though, the Chinese "throw people at it until it dies" tactic will fail miserably.

And Japan isn't known for bone-head political moves, of late. They keep quiet, try to mend relations with Korea, keep selling their various electronics to everyone... I think their national pride would be severely hurt if it was ever the case that a political move on their part was construed as an insult.
Logged

And if i catch you comin' back my way
I'm gonna serve it to you
And that ain't what you want to hear
But that's what I'll do
-- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

So what you're telling me is that LTV's fudge factor means more than it's independent variable?
Yes...
wodan46
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469


« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2008, 22:32:33 EDT »

As far as I can tell, Japan has more or less sacrificed their humanity in the process of gearing their society entirely towards efficiency at work.  As a result, they have a ridiculous GDP given both their population and the available land/resources they have available.  That said, every time I read up on Japanese society, I'm seriously disturbed by the nature of it.

The military movement was on the rise there, mainly because of North Korea but also China, but North Korea cooled down and the pro-military government recently got tossed out for being too corrupt.

I'm curious as to whether or not Japan is secretly researching nuclear weapons as a counter to China/North Korea, something they could easily do given their economy, but the Japanese have had an antipathy for nukes ever since they got some dropped on them.
Logged

The plural of "anecdote" is "anecdotes". Not "data".
Current
Pundit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3141


« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 05:25:05 EDT »

Quote from: Heq
China has it's targets locked, by the by, they are going to pound Japan economically, culturally, and dominate them into the ground.
I doubt that.  China have many economic problems they're keeping quiet about.  I suspect we'll here about them in the next few months.
Logged
Gizensha
Campaign Management Staff
Free Speech Advocate
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10053


Dragon Winged Fox


WWW
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 06:57:51 EDT »

Give Japan a few years, and their military culture will reassert its self. It didn't die when the constitution was changed to revoke the right of the Japanese government to have a standing army, it just mutated into their "live to work" culture.

That said, it's going to take a few decades to get their navy and air force up to scratch. After that, though, the Chinese "throw people at it until it dies" tactic will fail miserably.

And Japan isn't known for bone-head political moves, of late. They keep quiet, try to mend relations with Korea, keep selling their various electronics to everyone... I think their national pride would be severely hurt if it was ever the case that a political move on their part was construed as an insult.

I used to know someone who theorises that the Japanese, quite understandably, are trying to get off their tiny, earthquake infested, archipelago which is more mountains than habitable land... After they failed to do it via military might, they turned their attention to trying to get off their island via dominating the world economy via aggressive exports.
Logged

Quote from: Tim Guest
Interactive Fiction is computer gaming's best parallel with poetry: complex, subtle, and these days absolutely unsaleable.

Quote from: Raph Koster
Art and entertainment are not terms of type - they are terms of intensity
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!